I can help with markup and design! I recommend going with HTML5, actually. I hate the HTML5 Working Group (with a passion), but everything they're doing is pleasantly backwards- and forwards-compatible, and there's a job lot of nicely semantic new elements to use.

I ALSO recommend ditching the separate mobile version in favor of a responsive design. Which i can also help with! :)

Adrienne: Yay! Everything you suggest is eminently sensible -- I haven't used anything but HTML5 in new projects for the last couple of years. Sounds like a complete front-end redesign, though, would you be up for that?

(Were you thinking Bootstrap?)

I have a slightly whimsical suggestion: if we can crowdsource a whole range of ferret illustrations, could we have the ferret in the top left be randomised each time you go to a new page, kind of in the same way the tagline on the frontpage is randomised?

I've nothing against the current one and it shouldn't be retired completely, but we aren't that vindictive. Well, except when it's deserved.

I guess we could ask every commenter to draw us a ferret :D

Arthur, Kyra: I'd be up for random ferrets :-)

I like Adrienne's suggestion about userstyles to reskin the site, rather than Rami and Adrienne having to do it all at source.

Not exactly a technical point, but it would be nice to have "last updated/reviewed" info on static pages, particularly Friends. I'm always dead suspicious of link pages because they're so often obsolete, so having a flag that it's being looked after is a nice touch.

Yeah, we're rubbish at updating that page - I think because it's not very easily updatable. I keep dithering over deleting it entirely and accepting the fact we're totally solipsist.

Shimmin -- the thing about userstyles is that there's a limited amount they can do. My thought there was originally that it's just a good way to do a proof of concept; that was before I realized that everyone is enthusiastically interested in a complete redesign, and I don't have to convince anyone! :)

Userstyles would still be good potentially for alternate stylesheets, but given that Rami's game I'd say it'd still be good to take the opportunity to update the Markup.

As for the Friends page, perhaps it could be redone so that it pulled from somewhere else with an API, and therefore was more easily updateable?

I have a slightly whimsical suggestion: if we can crowdsource a whole range of ferret illustrations, could we have the ferret in the top left be randomised each time you go to a new page, kind of in the same way the tagline on the frontpage is randomised?

I now have an intense desire to draw a cossack ferret on badger-back and a WWI ferret pilot and a ferret pirate captain and a ferret wearing a periwig while holding a quill pen and an Edwardian ferret checking his pocket watch and a Regency Ferret with a parasol, and, and *runs out of breath*

I picture you guys in my head like this.


I like the new title font, but it looks kinda traditional while the normal text font looks more modern, so they don't seem to go together.

Userstyles would still be good potentially for alternate stylesheets, but given that Rami's game I'd say it'd still be good to take the opportunity to update the Markup.

Oh, I'm not trying to put you off. Just thinking that it's a useful thing if people have different preferences for fonts, for example, or WOB colour scheme or something.

I picture you guys in my head like this.

We look EXACTLY like that. Right down to the bowler hat.

I think you're right about the font mis-match, I think we're still trying to settle on one we like... and this one, at least, actually works unlike the last one I chose :/

I'm getting all inspired by this. Especially the Edwardian ferret checking his pocketwatch, who I can't help but picture as a ferrety version of the White Rabbit from Alice in Wonderland.

Does anyone have a preference between GitHub and BitBucket for where we set up the project?

Rami -- oh please Github, i hate Bitbucket's interface.

Even better, Assembla. It's free for Open Source projects, and they have REALLY NICE ticketing and filesharing tools.

Adrienne: Ooh, that's an interesting suggestion. I haven't used Assembla in about a year and a half, and then only scratched the surface. Seem to have a lot more collaboration & workflow tools than last I checked -- nice!

I've created the space, and will put up a bit more of a project skeleton soon.

Anyone who wants commit access, let me have your Assembla usernames please?

Rami, I'm just 'adrienne' on Assembla.

I drew a ferret.

http://imgur.com/YSTqD

Guy, that ferret is ADORABLE!

Aw, thanks! It's based on this photo, which I suspect is rather more adorable...

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/13800000/Adorable-White-Ferret-ferrets-13819143-800-800.jpg

Hey, everyone: what websites do you really like looking at?

I like this one a lot:

https://love2d.org/

Guy -- what do you like about it?

Hmm. It's clear and readable. Most of everything on it is flat areas of colour and modest-sized blocks of text. There are little cute things everywhere.

Actually, it's a bit like Ferretbrain. Which I also like. :)

I quite like Choice of Games. It's a bit, err, yellow but the text is clear and it looks very clean to me.

So I'm going to start (at least on the design front) by creating a moodboard and linking to it from here. A moodboard, for those not in the know, is where i stick up a bunch of stuff (like the sites you folks like, and some ferrets, and other "atmospheric" type stuff) that creates a "mood" for what the redesign might be like. None of it is intended to be taken as "the site will look like this!", just as sort of aesthetic directions or guidelines.

I don't think the tool i use allows collaboration, which is why i'm going to stick a link to it here; that way you all can leave comments and say "argh that sucks" or whatever.

Okay, this tool DOES allow collaboration, but doesn't have versioning, so one person trying to do something could manage to delete everything irrevocably. So i'll stick to PNGs and stuff for now.

That said, here's what i've got so far: fb moodboard

I love moodboards :D

There seems to be quite a lot of quirky Victoriana in there at the moment. Which is cool, but I was wondering if it needs to be toned down slightly with a dash of something more contemporary? I'm not sure exactly what to suggest though. Not being very visual, it feels very weird trying to imagine what Ferretbrain's mood should look like ...

Yeah, I think the Victoriana would look odd when we're expressing utter disdain for steampunk in concept and execution. ;)

What? I thought the general position was "Steampunk is really cool in concept but there's nothing out there that's actually any good yet and probably never will be."

(Well, actually, there is--it's a short story called "Ticker Hounds" that appeared in On Spec quite a few years back but that's pretty faint praise consider how much steampunk's been out lately)

Yah, totally not done with the moodboard, just posting for inspection. (That link will also update occasionally, when i remember to click the button to update the PNG.)

I only count two bits of Victoriana, and one medieval bit? Oh, unless you count the Tenniel as Victoriana, which i suppose would be reasonable, it just always falls in a very different category in my head for some reason. That would make three. I am certainly still pulling sources, colors, etc.

Also, Michal (and Arthur B), just mentioned something i think counts as another exception to the "Steampunk is shit" rule over in the Playpen (to avoid cluttering this thread). :)

Rami C: Bootstrap is cool, though i slightly prefer Zurb's Foundation and the H5BP project, in general. (And both allow for responsive designs using media queries and such.) I like to stay AWAY from frameworks that want you to use non-semantic grid markup, i think it's irritating.

I hadn't made my mind up as to which to use on projects going forward, actually ... think maybe i'll do yet more testing and write up a pros/cons list or something. :)

I quite like Icosahedrophilia's site, which is also fairly plain, and different elements (header, link, text) are clearly distinct. Though I prefer the FB one-sidebar design for articles at least, it's less distracting.

Adrienne: I actually wasn't aware of Foundation before -- that's nice, properly semantic and everything!

Rami -- There's some things out of Twitter Bootstrap i'd like to ADD to Foundation, i've been thinking about sort of hybridizing them a little bit. But yeah, i think Foundation has better semantics.

Probably a minor technical issue, but the Article Creator thinks the year is 1900... I don't know how deep-seated that misconception is, but if you're reviewing the code anyway you might want to check it out.

Probably a minor technical issue, but the Article Creator thinks the year is 1900... I don't know how deep-seated that misconception is, but if you're reviewing the code anyway you might want to check it out.

I believe this is a fudge to prevent the dating of frontpage articles getting confused when they're edited. (Articles are given a 1900 datestamp when they are created, and given a final datestamp when they are published, which doesn't change from that point - so if you edit an article years later to remove a typo it doesn't jump to the frontpage.) I suppose a more elegant solution is possible.

(I'd like article dates to be given hours and seconds value, so that when two articles get published in a day the second article doesn't get nudged down to second place by the first one...)