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Comments on Wardog's Peacast IX: 'Avengers Assemble' or 'The Avengers' in the US
She was played as having such a weak, chewy center that I was barely able to recognize the original character. She appeared to be a woman who put up a tough front and played soldier, but inside she was a fragile, weak little girl.
There's the bit where she's introduced with the chair, and the bit later where she gets to break Loki's guard by manipulating him into calling her a "mewling quim".
Letting someone she has a debt to die - that gives them too much power over her.
Surely letting someone you have a debt to die is an extraordinarily efficient way of making sure they lose all power over you?
Yeah, I was going for what Shimmin said. Also, isn't it kind of a non-heroish way to think to get out of debt by death?
Isn't ledger morality kind of non-heroish to begin with?
There's a fair scattering of "debt of honour" characters around, who express their worldview in those terms, or use it as a pretext for their decisions, even if they don't really mean it. "I am tough and brooding but I owe them my life" is nothing particularly new, especially in teams-up.
Is the WG/Hawkeye romance thing sorta canon?
Just speculating here, but I wonder if they might have been trying to have her as a tough professional who throws up this soft façade, only the emphasis goes the wrong way round (and gets muddled into the Hawkeye thing)? That seemed to be what they were aiming for with the intro and Loki bits.
It's little moments like those that I feel take away from the true strength of the character.
The thing that bothered me most about the Widow and Hawkeye story was that everyone seemed to accept a hard smack on the head as a good enough method to completely cure his mind control.
It's an interesting theory, but totally not in keeping with her canonically established character and not consistent with her character in the movie, imo. Like how she was so broken by her fight with the Hulk, the softness is not a facade there; she's alone.
I do like how they draw tits on the tiny Lego figure to make it a girl. Cute.
I'm not an unabashed fan of manipulation in general, but if it's okay for scrappy brainy dudes to manipulate big dumb dudes, it should be okay for scrappy girls to do the same thing.
Of course it should, but that'd hinge on the techniques both use being comparable.
I'm not clear there's any power that can keep Whedon away from a barefoot psychic ninja courtesan.
One of my friends was talking about how weird it is that The Avengers kind of stretches to include one female member where in any of the DC team properties, making a six person team with 2 or 3 women isn't even a thing.
It's not even a thing for the Avengers either. The Avengers have had lots of women on their team in their history.
I haven't read them myself, but apparently the Avengers are just angrier and douchier
Finally, does Loki's "mewling" comment push him into Whedon's straw misogynist territory?
From what I hear (I'll try to find a link when I'm not on a bus) the thing is that 'quim' is actually not a slur, just a neutral descriptive word (in contrast to 'quean', which is derogatory).
That was indeed a fucking excellent joke. And also holy moly did you actually just recite the Mallett's Mallet spiel from memory?
Kyra: I think there should be a Hawkeye movie …
I can just barely accept that this is what cures Loki's mind control, but how on earth did Black Widow figure that out?
but I thought that exploiting her own weakness (the pain she feels at Loki's control over her friend) to successfully manipulate Loki is a lot more powerful and heroic on her part than if she'd merely been feigning that weakness.
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