Playpen

Welcome to the Playpen, our space for ferrety banter and whimsical snippets of things that aren't quite long enough for articles (although they might be) but that caught your eye anyway.

at 18:48 on 20-09-2015, James D
Probably it calls you a bad person for not willing to go far for your son. Which you don't even actually have. Or the choice is just an illusion. Those "you are a bad person" games are like the schoolyard bully who makes you hit yourself with your own fist and then says "stop hitting yourself."
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at 01:21 on 19-09-2015, Melanie
Now I want to know what you get if you choose the "not that far" door.
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at 16:32 on 17-09-2015, Arthur B
Someone made a Super Mario Maker level parodying Serious Decision narrative bullshit "ooooh, do you see, you were the baddie all along" art-games. Brilliant.
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at 03:09 on 17-09-2015, Sunnyskywalker
Well, I can definitely understand him not trusting Tony Stark. (And how do you even call Thor? Does he even get cell service wherever he hangs out?) But this does highlight how awkward it is that they have an Avengers program but, apparently, no Avengers weekly virtual meetings or mandatory Avengers training sessions so they can all get to know each other and coordinate their Avenging. Have the writers ever worked for the government? There would be meetings! With agendas! There would be an official Avengers Program Plan full of Missions and Objectives and Visions! Yes, even in a top-secret agency full of independent maverick consultants. That is just how government programs work and you can't stop them.

He ought to have spent a little more time around them than just that one time saving the world, iow, and at least initiate some helpful dialog for the viewer on how he doesn't know them well enough to risk calling them even if they did suffer through a mandatory webinar series with chat sidebar together last Friday.

I think that fic explains where Hawkeye was perfectly. Ha!
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at 02:00 on 16-09-2015, Melanie
Honestly, I haven't read a single one of the comics either. There's just so much investment involved, no guarantee the story will ever wrap up properly (if it hasn't already, I mean), changes in writers, research required just to figure out where you can start reading (assuming that you a)don't want to be confused about what's going on and who people are, and b)don't feel like trying to hunt down fifty+ years' worth of back issues so you can read everything, in order), etc. So generally I only read comics if I've heard something good/interesting about a specific run and I can actually find all of it.

there's still the question of why she didn't ring up her best friend Hawkeye to help them fight the bad guys. I prefer to believe he was in deep cover while all this was going down and couldn't be reached.


I actually found this brilliant, hilarious fic along those lines (gen, short).
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at 00:30 on 16-09-2015, Robinson L
Huh, I haven't really read the comics in years, but I guess I got enough background knowledge from that to figure out most of that stuff.

(Totally one of those people who goes around asking "so, what were all the other established characters in that universe doing while this was going on?" Actually, come to think, that could be a great concept for a series of one-shot comics - just explaining where all the other superheroes were during, say, Iron Man III, for instance. But yeah, you also got that in the comics, wondering why the various heroes and villains don't trip over each other much more often.)

Sunnyskywalker: "I'm pretty sure Steve knows other superheroes. Does he not trust them?"

That initially bugged me in Winter Soldier, too, but then I thought about it a bit more and I said, "hang on a minute, why would he be inclined to trust them?" After all, Fury told him not to trust anybody, and unlike in the comics, he hasn't known Bruce and Tony and the others since forever - in the movie timeline, he's met them all once for a couple of days at this point, and yeah, they saved the world together, but that doesn't mean they're always going to be on the same side. He doesn't really know what type of people they are, and their interactions in The Avengers gave him reason to have doubts about pretty much all of them. It looks like the only one he's worked with closely since the Battle of New York is Tasha, and by the time
Fury apparently dies
the film has already established that he doesn't trust her and why. We, as viewers know that she and the other Avengers are on the level, of course, but when I thought about it for a minute, I could absolutely see why Steve would be distrustful at this point.

Of course, once he's decided to throw in with Tasha, there's still the question of why she didn't ring up her best friend Hawkeye to help them fight the bad guys. I prefer to believe he was in deep cover while all this was going down and couldn't be reached.
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at 05:33 on 15-09-2015, Sunnyskywalker
It probably didn't help that I haven't read the mountains of comics either, and only have osmosis-knowledge of most of the characters, organizations, events, etc.

That was another weird thing about the movies, definitely! I kept thinking, "I'm pretty sure Steve knows other superheroes. Does he not trust them? Or did he just lose their cell phone numbers because he's still getting the hang of cell phones?"
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at 03:49 on 15-09-2015, Melanie
I think the thing about having different movies, or series, or whatever, be interconnected is that any specific piece is either going to be what you describe--not fully able to stand on its own because too much of it is reliant on other movies/whatever[1]--or else the connections are going to be shallow enough that there's not much payoff for having them in the same universe. Or you might get the worst of both worlds! From what I've seen, a lot of fans feel like it's the second thing. There are a lot of "what exactly were the other Avengers doing during [movie]" jokes. And, I mean, it goes further than that even, because Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, and the various Avengers[2] are all theoretically in the same universe, but in practice it feels like this is only true when they want to do a crossover episode/issue. (And when they do that, the characterization can be... disappointingly off-kilter. So it doesn't even necessarily feel like all this stuff is in the same universe even during the specific episodes/issues where it explicitly is!)


[1]It honestly didn't seem that way to me, but then that's like saying a story's resolution or twist is "obvious" when you knew about it beforehand. So I have to guess that other people who didn't go into it with the same, secretly required, specific foreknowledge about that recurring plotline probably found it similarly unsatisfying/puzzling.
[2]And probably also a dozen others I'm forgetting. Marvelverse is this giant lumbering beast.
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at 03:14 on 15-09-2015, Sunnyskywalker
I might feel differently if I watched it again. Or if I'd seen more than half of the current Marvel not-series. Come to think of it, I might have been pickier than usual when watching the movie because a bunch of stuff was obviously little shout-outs to the movies I hadn't seen yet, so I was annoyed that I couldn't just watch a movie not billed as part of any series but Captain America without having done extra movie-watching homework first. So when the Winter Soldier kept not showing up, I was not inclined to go looking for deep thematic reasons why the title might also reflect Steve's journey & etc. I just wanted to watch the movie the disc label promised me. But you're all probably right in this case.

It seems like Marvel is trying to have the benefits of both stand-alone and series (er, and of both movie and TV series, at that), and it just isn't working. The conglomeration of movies isn't really a series, in the sense that a random viewer will recognize it as such on casual inspection, and then easily figure out what order the movies should be watched in for maximum viewing comprehension and enjoyment. And you can kind of watch them in any random order. I mean, theoretically you could watch The Avengers without also having watched every Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, etc. movie out at that time. Some people seem to have managed it.

But every single one I've watched has a lot of content that only makes sense if you've seen a bunch of other movies, from the "was that a joke? I think that was an in-joke" to the "who is this major important character? wait, is he an alien or a god or an alien god I am so lost" degree. So you can't really just, say, watch all the movies featuring one of the characters--you'll still miss stuff.

And then some of the movies are barely structured as single movies rather than really, really long pilot episodes for a series that supposedly isn't a series. Full of stuff with no apparent meaning or reason for being there, which might mean something to someone who watched every other Marvel movie, or which might be totally important three movies from now.

Footnotes might actually become necessary. I bet there will at least be a fan-captioned version, if there isn't already.
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at 18:06 on 14-09-2015, Robinson L
Sunnyskywalker: The way I felt while watching it was that the Winter Soldier was was barely in the first half of the movie at all and they spent a lot of time worrying about other Hydra baddies. It felt more like setup for something to happen in a sequel.

I agree this setting-up-for-a-sequel (or spin-off) business is becoming annoyingly prevalent in Marvel movies, but for me, the Winter Soldier was not such a case. Sure, he wasn't in the first half of the movie much, but in the second half, he and Steve had a nice little complete arc of conflict which eventually gives way to a measure of reconciliation. The film left plenty of room for further development between the two in a sequel film (coming next May!/announcer voice), but if for whatever reason that didn't happen, I would find the Winter Soldier's story in the movie a complete and satisfying arc in its own right. Basically, I agree with Janne. (The next Captain America movie is Civil War, so unless the catalyst for the superheroes' fallout is what to do about the Winter Soldier, I'd imagine his storyline will be taking a back seat. I'd be curious to know if other folks think that's likely.)

Janne: I wonder if at some point footnotes will start to appear when a new character familiar from a different series appear or something that happened in another movie or tv series is alluded to. Like in the comics: "See Agents of SHIELD S02E01! -The writers".

That would probably be really annoying, but also kind of hilarious.
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at 12:12 on 14-09-2015, Janne Kirjasniemi
I thought the thing with the Winter Soldier title was, that the Winter SWoldier bit as what was specifically about Steve's characters growth and coming to grips with his odd circumstances by having (spoilers!) something from his past that he thought was irrevocably lost turning up while a whole lot of other business was going on. The Hydra business was of course connected to Steve's escapades during WWII, but that was more business as usual, superhero/spy shenanigans and running around fighting stuff. The Winter Soldier was more personal and more about Steve's arc as the Cap.

I concur with the criticism about the Guardians. Marvel's project of making a decades long series of everything is ambitious enough, but remembering how convoluted the comics always get when things progress enough over different titles, the end result might get a bit weird. I wonder if at some point footnotes will start to appear when a new character familiar from a different series appear or something that happened in another movie or tv series is alluded to. Like in the comics: "See Agents of SHIELD S02E01! -The writers".

Thanos and Darkseid are pretty much the same character. The main difference being that Thanos dwells in Marvelandia, Darkseid in Detective Cosmos.
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at 03:33 on 14-09-2015, Melanie
Mmm, yeah they basically seem to be doing a series... as a set of movies. And honestly--while I like some of the movies in it--I feel like movies, especially that kind (i.e. big budget), are possibly the worst medium to do a series with. (Not counting movies that are based on existing, finished, series, like LotR and what have you.)

First, they take so long to make that there's guaranteed to be a big wait between installments, which is annoying when you finish watching one and find out there's more that you can't have yet (plus the awareness that when the next installment does arrive, a year from now, you might not be interested anymore or have forgotten crucial details). (This can be the case with book series, too, but it feels more acceptable somehow. Maybe just because I'm used to the idea of book series? Also of course even if a book's in a series we tend to expect it to stand on its own and will be annoyed if it has large swathes of filler that's obviously just there to set up the next book.)

Second, the time between plus the complexity involved in making the movie gives a lot of room for things to go off-track. An actor might become unavailable for whatever reason and have to be replaced or even written out of the script, for example. Or if someone different is writing/directing the next movie (as has been the case for these, I think), they might have a completely different take on things you care about. You don't necessarily know you can trust them to do a good job. (Which is less of a concern for a book series written by a single author--I mean, plenty of those do go downhill after a certain point, but... in a different way, it feels like.)

Third, an individual movie is sort of... big, in a way that an episode of a tv show or an issue of a comic isn't. It's a large chunk of story, all at once, with a lot invested in it. If it sucks, it's harder to ignore it and harder to feel like maybe the next one will be good.

...Honestly, that first thing is why I'd rather watch tv shows/read comics that are already finished, when I can. Not just so I know that the end exists and that it will be actually possible to watch/read the whole thing, but so it's easier to maintain interest all the way there. Not that I don't get sucked into ongoing things anyway.
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at 21:40 on 13-09-2015, Craverguy
It's a sequel hook. Thanos is going to be the big villain of the next Avengers movie.
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at 07:47 on 13-09-2015, Axiomatic
That's the one thing I didn't like about Guardians of the Galaxy. Every scene with...is it Darksied or Thanatos? Aren't they the same guy? It's just completely unnecessary and has no payoff whatsoever.
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at 03:16 on 13-09-2015, Sunnyskywalker
Maybe having more background/related recent watching makes a difference. The way I felt while watching it was that the Winter Soldier was was barely in the first half of the movie at all and they spent a lot of time worrying about other Hydra baddies. It felt more like setup for something to happen in a sequel. (Which is something that has been bothering me about a lot of the Marvel movies. It feels like lots of the stuff that happens is either a shout-out to something that happened in another movie in the franchise, or something which has nothing to do with anything actually happening but is necessary setup for something a movie or two down the line. I wish they could integrate it better, so that it will also seem relevant to the movie I'm actually watching instead of like some mutant spawn of Filler Nonsense and an advertisement.)
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at 17:02 on 02-09-2015, Melanie
Yeah, they really dropped the ball there. What was that thing with her sister? Even when I was actually watching the movie the first time (as opposed to thinking about it later) I was confused about why they were even fighting. Was it... just so they could have an action sequence? They could have accomplished that any number of other ways. It felt like as soon as it was about Gamora, suddenly the writing got lazier.

I'm surprised to see you say that about Winter Soldier, though. The whole thing with Bucky and Steve felt like a big, central deal to me--part of (though not the whole of) the emotional center of the movie. Maybe it's a matter of expectations; I'd previously watched the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon (the recent one... I feel like maybe there've been more than one) and they did the whole "Winter Soldier" bit, too (apparently it's a recurring thing, I mean, with different iterations in the franchise). And by "'Winter Soldier' bit" I mean specifically (spoilers) "good guys, including Steve, have to fight some mysterious scary Hydra-affiliated badass, known only as the Winter Soldier, who then turns out to be Steve's old friend/old sidekick Bucky, who they thought was dead but who was actually captured and brainwashed by Hydra. Cue angst. They/Steve help him break free of that and then he goes off on his own, presumably to show up at some later date". And apparently they'd built up Steve and Bucky's relationship and set the whole thing up in the first Captain America movie. So, I was definitely alert for all that and waiting to see what they'd do with it this time.
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at 02:48 on 26-08-2015, Sunnyskywalker
I enjoyed Guardians of the Galaxy well enough, but every time another bit of Gamora's backstory came out, I kept thinking, "Wow, that is super plot-relevant! Why is that being shoved into the background?" Like, all the villains are either her "family" (as in, killed her original family, kidnapped her, and rebuilt her into a weapon) or someone working with her family, so she's the one with emotional connections to them. Drax has a beef with her because her family killed his family. Stopping her villainous family is her chance to redeem herself for her past crimes. And Peter... has none of that, but more screentime. A bunch of the Peter-centric stuff was obviously sequelbait (hello, Deadbeat Alien Angel Dad!), but had nothing to do with the movie I was actually watching. So the whole thing felt like the center of gravity was just wrong. (More of my rambling here if anyone's interested.

Winter Soldier was also okay, but the title gave me such the wrong expectations. The Winter Soldier was hardly in the thing, and seems like he'll be more important in a sequel. So I spent a lot of the movie going, "What's the Winter Soldier got to do with anything? Did I miss something?" I guess you could see it as Steve Rogers being his own kind of winter soldier since he's also been thawed out and is trying to adjust to a different time period, but it probably should have been called Captain America: The Hydra Conspiracy or something else that reflected what the movie was actually about.

Of course I seem to have atypical viewer reactions to some things, so maybe it's just me.
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at 22:00 on 25-08-2015, Robinson L
@Arthur: Fair enough, but I'm afraid for your sake that the current superhero movie fad has not yet hit it's peak, and it's going to be some time now until those particular levers inevitably break.

@Shim: Personally, I enjoyed the action scenes in Winter Soldier; they had a lot of energy, and didn't drag on interminably for me, unlike some other Marvel movies I could mention.

The rest of this post is going to contain a lot of spoilers, and I'm not going to use a tag because the spoilers are the discussion. So if there's anyone here who hasn't seen the movie and wants to avoid spoilers, this is the place to stop reading.

So, the plot of the film is that SHIELD has been infiltrated by HYDRA, who plan to use three floating doomsday platforms developed by SHIELD to kill a couple million people who are the greatest threats to their goal of world domination. Nick Fury grows suspicious of the doomsday platform project and tries to get it put on hold while he investigates, and HYDRA tries to assassinate him, apparently succeeding. Before his "death," Fury passes a vital clue to HYDRA's plot to Captain America. Captain America and Black Widow follow the clue, dodging HYDRA's assassins along the way, and finally discover the full extent of the plot. They are reunited with Fury, and with the help of Falcon and Agent Maria Hill, team up to take down the doomsday, platforms, HYDRA, and the hopelessly corrupted SHIELD along with them.

To me, this is a good political/spy thriller plot; the premise has some very silly elements, but the film takes its material just seriously enough to make the viewer feel it, but sufficiently unseriously that the silly superhero stuff is still an asset rather than a liability (as was the case in, e.g., Nolan's The Dark Knight). Once you buy into the premise, the character's actions and motivations make sense, and the story progresses organically rather than depending upon artifice or contrivance.

The threat posed by the villains also feels a lot more real than in most of the early Marvel movies. In those films, the heroes - once they got their powers - blew through scores of enemies without breaking a sweat, there was only a 50/50 chance of even the main villain being an even match for them. Whereas in this movie, sure, Cap is a lot stronger and tougher than everyone else, but they establish early on that the Winter Soldier can take him on, and even the regular HYDRA mooks come awfully close to killing him with a combination of numbers, strategy, and sheer firepower half a dozen times. (And, of course, the rest of the cast, though trained fighters, are no more than level with all the HYRDA agents.)

There's also some good character subplots with Captain America and Black Widow finding a way to trust each other even when they have very good reasons not to; and also Cap trying to reestablish his bonds with his old (and presumed deceased) friend Bucky, since brainwashed into becoming the titular Winter Soldier. (I'm also a sucker for the whole "hero refuses to continue attacking antagonist because of their personal connection" and then "antagonist saves hero's life" scenario.)

I would characterize the main message as "people who think the world would be a safer place if they held a gun to everyone's head are either outright fascists or just dangerously naive." Trust is also a big theme, and I would say the message there is something about the need for trust and partnership and the difficulty of building them in a situation where, as you say, distrust and suspicion are often crucial survival traits.

And no, I still don't know why Nick Fury burned all his personal stuff at the end: I chalked it up to one of those instances where a filmmaker will have a character do something because it's symbolically meaningful rather than it being a sensible thing for that character to do under the circumstances. Annoying, but for me it was a minor point.
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at 11:00 on 25-08-2015, Arthur B
I'm personally kind of tired of the whole superhero cycle at this point. It's the old story: movie studio finds combinations of levers they can pull which yields major returns; movie studio pulls the same levers over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again until they break.

I mean, they're fun and all, but it's one flavour of fun and to me it's outstayed its welcome and needs to go away for a while to refresh itself.
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at 21:15 on 24-08-2015, Shim
I still haven't seen Guardians, but I did see Winter Soldier recently.

Honestly I found it completely adequate as a superhero film, but a bit tedious at times. In particular I felt like the fight scenes were far too long. That wasn't particularly down to the actual combat, I think it's an artefact of modern budgets and special effects. Instead of Thug firing, Guy dodging and something ricocheting somewhere, we get Thug firing, Guy dodging, the shot slamming into a nearby car, which careens into a wall, and another car crashes into it and flips right over the wall trailing flames, and slams down in the path of a bus, which slews across the road hurling lampposts around, and people run around screaming, and thirty seconds later Guy actually responds.

I also wasn't really sure what it was trying to say. Trusting people is both genuinely problematic for intelligence agents and demonstrably unwise in the canon of the film, where half the characters turn out to be untrustworthy Hydra mooks. At the end Samuel L Jackson burns down his secret hospital in what's clearly supposed to be a moving symbolic scene, but I didn't understand why he was burning it down, given that it was a field hospital rather than some kind of sinister archive, and that having a secret fallback base is a genuinely sensible move (in fact, not having one is criminally foolish in his position).

Can you say a bit more and sell me on it? I absolutely didn't hate it, but it didn't particularly speak to me either. I can't honestly remember it very well after quite a short time.
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at 20:02 on 24-08-2015, Robinson L
Well ... that backfired spectacularly.

Not much more to say on the puppy ballot, but I'm glad to see Orphan Black getting some love, especially since I'm baffled at seeing "Listen" apparently come in for praise - a profoundly "meh" of an episode, if you ask me. It had some good parts, but only about half of them came together at the end, leaving us with a story which was ultimately less than the sum of its parts.

Ouch on Guardians of the Galaxy, though - ptolemaeus hated that movie, and though I found it enjoyably watchable, it was hardly great. Whereas I think Winter Soldier had probably the best-written and -executed plot of any Marvel Cinematic Universe movie I've seen to date (possibly The Incredible Hulk or Ant-Man are superior, but I'm skeptical. On the other hand, I know she's happy to see Ms. Marvel bring home an award.

As for best novel, I'm a bit surprised to see Ancillary Sword come in third (though I haven't read the winner or first runner up) because I liked it better, on the whole, than its 2014 award-winning predecessor. (And tangent alert: the rest of this post is going to be my rambling thoughts on the series).


Ancillary Justice took more than a hundred pages to really hook me in, but with Sword, I was on board from pretty much the beginning. I guess now that we have the set up, and Ann Leckie isn't playing cagey with her protagonist's goals and motivations, she can plunge the reader in right from the start, rather than keeping her at a distance for a while.

The characters and world-building were engaging and the plot was quite good. I like the way the protagonist is usually several steps ahead of the reader (I've also recently been listening to the first season of the TeXt Factor again, and it's a bit reminiscent of Sam Spade in The Maltese Falcon), not an easy trick to pull off when you're the first person narrator.

I also think Leckie walks a fine line with Breq, as this character with incredible power and authority coming into a situation righting wrongs and dispensing justice, without turning her into a Great White Savior.

And, of course, there's lots of wonderfully subversive questioning of assumptions that comes with an almost entirely gender-ambiguous cast, who are all referred to by female pronouns.

I was surprised by how small the story was, considering the grand sweeping scope introduced at the end of the previous book. I wasn't disappointed by the story—perish the thought—but there's this massive war going on in the background, which I'm now wondering how Leckie is going to resolve satisfactorily in the final book.

I guess the one real criticism I have is that early in the book, we're introduced to a character who, it transpires,
has been turned into an ancillary of the Lord of the Radch
. Once the
tech which made her an ancillary
has been removed, Breq tells the Medic that the person that character was previously is now dead. Granted, this can be taken metaphorically, that the character has been permanently transformed by her traumatic experience, but given that in every other instance of the
ancillary
process we've seen so far, the original personality has been definitively killed, I read the "dead" pronouncement as literal (as in, erased memory), and it took me the best part of a highly confusing chapter or two to work out what was going on.

But yeah, other than that, very good book, definitely recommended.
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at 22:34 on 23-08-2015, Arthur B
A bunch of puppies got taken out behind the shed and given the Ol' Yeller treatment at the Hugos today. (The sole exception is Guardians of the Galaxy, which if anything demonstrates how a piece can, under the right circumstances, shake off the stink of being associated with the puppies if it's of a high enough quality and it doesn't actually share the politics of the puppies that latched onto it.)

Abigail Nussbaum has one of the better early responses to the story. Whole article is worth a read but I think the take-away quote is this:

The puppies claimed that they represented "real" Hugo fandom, here to take back the award from a politically-motivated cabal that had commandeered it.

But the thing is, if that were true, it would be true. If the puppies had truly represented "real" fandom, then "real" fandom would have turned up to vote for the nominees they put on the ballot. Instead, the people who voted were, overwhelmingly, thoroughly pissed off and eager to kick some puppy ass. The Hugo is a popular vote award, and what that means is that while it can be manipulated, it can't be stolen. It belongs to whoever turns up to vote, and in 2015 the people who turned up to vote wanted nothing to do with the puppies' politics and tactics. Despite the puppies' loudest claims to the contrary, 3,000 voters are not a cabal or a clique. They are the fandom.
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at 18:06 on 20-08-2015, Robinson L
New York State, around 50 miles up the Hudson from the city; it's where my parents and my sisters live, and where I'm going back to this weekend. (Then back in Ohio in a month, then somewhere else in October for a new job ...) And yeah, Labor Day definitely wouldn't work - we'll be visiting my the NY State Fair with my mother's family that weekend. Too bad.
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at 03:52 on 20-08-2015, Adrienne
Robinson L,

Sadly it'll be Labor Day weekend, so beginning of September. :( Whereabouts did you move to, if it can be told?
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