Playpen

Welcome to the Playpen, our space for ferrety banter and whimsical snippets of things that aren't quite long enough for articles (although they might be) but that caught your eye anyway.

at 15:30 on 08-07-2016, Robinson L
Thanks Sunnyskywalker and Arthur - you both voiced points I had in mind without properly being able to articulate.

I'm also really digging these ideas for potential debates around issues of science, religion, nihilism, and similar themes. It's definitely the sort of stuff I could see a good Trek show exploring in some really interesting ways.

Sunnyskywalker: Uhura being not just a black woman, but a black woman from Africa whose first language is Swahili

You know, I don't think I'd realized that before. Cool.

James D: Well, Julian Bashir was of course a prominent Arab crew member, and the actor who plays him is Muslim in real life, but I don't think his religious views were ever brought up one way or the other.

I don't think they were, either. And actually, it took me a long time to realize he was Arabic, but I was pretty young when the show first aired.

On which point, DS9 concluded its run in 1999, two years before the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks in 2001, and the subsequent explosion of anti-Arab racism in the US (and at least some parts of Europe). Since then, no official Trek show or movie I'm aware of has had an Arab among the main cast, when we need positive portrayals of Middle Easterners in movies and TV more than ever.

And I do think it needs to be (at least one) Arab character, because while the hateful rhetoric is couched in religious terms, the actual violence and discrimination laps over onto non-Muslim Middle Easterners, Sikhs, and the like.

@Janne: You raise an interesting point about people from former Soviet countries as the go-to mooks of our era. I confess I hadn't noticed it, personally, but I can easily believe it.

Now I think about it, it's interesting to consider the politics of who gets cast as generic bad guys in American TV and film. Specifically, I don't think there's much popular sentiment of distrust or hatred directed toward people from former Soviet-block countries (well, except for a bit of anti-Russian bias, mainly). Similarly, US film studios and networks are notoriously enamored of casting English villains (also Germans, because World War II still has a lot of cache out here), but the popular mainstream view of England and Germany still seems to be highly positive, and moderately positive, respectively.
permalink
at 01:40 on 08-07-2016, Sunnyskywalker
It would definitely be nice to de-center Christianity in any religion vs. no religion dynamic, and have something else serve as the representative religious option, for sure. With an ensemble cast plus recurring guest stars and a Planet of the Week, they could even get really wild for TV and have more than one of each! To play off any glum atheist character, the security chief could be an optimistic atheist who thinks people can create meaning and that it's logical to try to be as fair and kind as possible because there's only one life and so we shouldn't ruin it for anyone. (A security chief who's able but reluctant to kill because they're reluctant to utterly destroy life, as they see it, would also be interesting.) The Muslim character could explain that yes, this mission has taken them to a Muslim-dominant planet, but they were settled/converted by a different sect, so they might not actually see hir as "one of them" for diplomatic purposes. Complexity!

As for the movies, iirc, Uhura is supposed to be from Kenya. Let's see if she ever gets a line or scene establishing in passing whether she's Muslim. It won't be quite as topical as if it had come up in passing in 2009 that btw, this long-beloved and heroic character is a Kenyan Muslim, but better late than never...
permalink
at 10:00 on 07-07-2016, Janne Kirjasniemi
An interesting pairing could be had by having a devout muslim crew member be in the McCoy role, a scientist, but not as thickheadedly rational as the opposition. So in the Spock role one could have a glumatheist, a pessimistic nihilist (one would have to come up with a proper motivation to explain their presence there in the first place though) to offer a foil to the deist and vice-versa. It might be hard to write a sympathetic character, who is a nihilist, but hardly impossible, as he could well be a very ethical humanist (or sentietist? In a universe of sentient aliens).

A glumatheists meeting with a Q like presence would be interesting, especially if a pessimistic nihilist would expect a superior being to be a cthulhu like creature in behaviour at least. So it might be an arc for the character to evolve in his nihilism, perhaps.

And of course I don't mean that in TOS Spock and McCoy can be reduced to such caricatures completely, but I'm talking more about character dynamics. Similarly, those philosophical aspects would not have to be everything about the characters, but to have the science vs. religion debate to be had by two protagonist characters neither of whom are christian, would be a fun and fresh angle.

If going by contemporary political expectations, the muslim character could well be from Chechnya or turkmenistan. I've spotted several chechens playing the role of villainous terrorists or being your basic mooks. Perhaps it is because they have a familiar name, but are sufficiently unknown to serve as base-line villains. Former Soviet ethnicities seem to be one of the main sources of cannon fodder these days.
permalink
at 10:40 on 06-07-2016, James D
Well, Julian Bashir was of course a prominent Arab crew member, and the actor who plays him is Muslim in real life, but I don't think his religious views were ever brought up one way or the other. It would be cool if they made it more explicit with a new character, but I doubt they will. I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if they rock the boat at all.
permalink
at 10:26 on 06-07-2016, Arthur B
I think including a prominent Muslim character as one of the heroes would not only help dial back the smugatheist "psssh, obviously in the future we'd be past all that horseshit" but also be a nice parallel to the inclusion of Chekov, who was a Russian character with access to key systems of the ship presented to the world at a time when the Soviets were the enemy du jour.
permalink
at 04:31 on 06-07-2016, Sunnyskywalker
Serial television definitely seems like a better medium for Trek. It allows for a true ensemble cast instead of two heroic guys plus sidekicks and comic relief, so you can actually showcase a variety of protagonists and story types. And it's easier to use that classic Trek conclusion, "Wait, let's all put down our phasers and talk about this like reasonable beings. We can learn to understand each other and work things out peacefully." (I mean, I would like to see more Hollywood blockbusters try that too for a change, but it's easier to get away with it when you can promise the network you'll blow something up next week.)

I am now imagining the new helm and navigator being a Mexican transman and a bisexual Iraqi Muslim woman who constantly try to one-up each other using Chekov's old gag of "Hey, my people invented that thing!" Except this time they're usually both right. And then they'd go off and discover new life and new civilizations and have tense relationships with their siblings who've founded weird cults or something and feel sad about not seeing that scary blob alien until after it had already eaten a redshirt. It would be awesome.

The extent to which the original cast hasn't dated as much as you'd think is sad, though. E.g., Uhura being not just a black woman, but a black woman from Africa whose first language is Swahili and who is awesome at math and languages and rewiring subspace radios would be almost as revolutionary today as it was in the 1960s, I think. I mean, look how almost none of that comes up in the movies, even when they easily could have found reasons for it to be useful to the plot! (And every time she does language stuff, it's either minor and not useful until Kirk recognizes the significance, or useless.) I'm glad that racist networks aren't keeping her from dating Spock anymore, but she could drive the plot occasionally too. But we've only got two hours to show three hours' worth of manpain, so.
permalink
at 03:36 on 06-07-2016, Robinson L
James D: I don't think Star Trek has even had a plain old homosexual.

I'm pretty sure it hasn't, (except maybe for some of the Mirror Universe characters on DS9), which is disgraceful. And yeah, I'm probably overreaching all plausibility with my wish list here, but I keep coming back to the fact that for its time, the Original 60s Trek was doing serious cutting edge stuff in terms of its social (particularly racial) politics. It was pretty radical in terms of its inclusivity.

It seems to me self-evidently obvious that any self-respecting Star Trek show in the 2010s needs to have at least one LG or B core cast member. That's a bare minimum. But if we're going to have a new Trek show, I really, really want it to go beyond the bare minimum, and by my reading of the current cultural climate, trans* and non-binary issues are the next frontier for queer politics, at least in the USA.

I think it's reasonable, given the franchise's history, to hold it to an exceptionally high standard when it comes to social issues (that is, "exceptionally high" for network television, which I put a few steps above regular "decent fucking human being" standard). I expect I'll likely be disappointed, but I'd argue that if so, then it's due to failings on the part of the production crew and/or network executives, not my standards are unreasonable.

Okay, that's probably enough *descends soapbox, unstraps Minority Warrior gear*
permalink
at 00:21 on 06-07-2016, James D
And please, please, please can we have at least one main character who's trans*/genderqueer/otherwise non-binary?

Good luck. I don't think Star Trek has even had a plain old homosexual.

Garak was originally envisioned by his actor as being omnisexual, which is why in his first appearance he blatantly flirts with Dr. Bashir, but just that was apparently too much and was dropped for the rest of the series.
permalink
at 10:15 on 05-07-2016, Craverguy
I'm now imagining with some glee the reaction if Fuller took Robinson's advice and the sort of people who support Trump came to the realization that there was a prime time network drama with no straight white male cast members (except maybe one cast as an alien, and therefore loaded down with makeup and prostheses to conceal that fact).
permalink
at 03:36 on 05-07-2016, Robinson L
Alasdair: I'd be willing to bet JJTrek and Bryan Fuller's new series exist so that both Paramount and CBS can produce new Trek content without having to talk to one another ever again. Which, I suppose, means that the TNG era of Trek wasn't another chapter in the story, but a self-contained little episode that has now ended. Speaking as someone who grew up on that era...it's a goddamn shame.

Ditto to that last sentiment; TNG and DS9 were great shows, and Voyager had many good points.

On a more positive note, I am cautiously hopeful about the new Trek series in the works. Whatever one things of the movies (pre- and post-reboot) I feel like serial television is just a superior medium for telling the kinds of stories which Trek is all about. Even really good movies are a side dish, not the main course.

Also, several months ago, ptolemaeus was very pleased to report that Fuller's ideal casting for the show is apparently Angela Basset for Captain and Rosario Dawson as First Officer. Though, as she was quick to point out, to be truly relevant to the current cultural climate as Trek was at its best, what we really need are prominent Arab crew members. I would go further and advocate ditching the "Outgrown these silly superstitions" credo and make at least one main character openly Muslim. At least one Latinx main character would also be strongly advisable given prevailing sentiment here in the U.S. And please, please, please can we have at least one main character who's trans*/genderqueer/otherwise non-binary?
permalink
at 04:04 on 04-07-2016, Sunnyskywalker
My skin crawls every time the Ferengi say "Feeemaaales!" I think we have all actually met those guys.

Oh, the transporter accident that reveals Kirk's personality is half rapist! Which Spock thinks is interesting and useful! How could I forget...

Yeah, network politics and the shape of Trek does sound like it could be revealing. And sad.
permalink
at 02:02 on 04-07-2016, Alasdair Czyrnyj
Sunny, you forgot that the machine that can put men's minds into women's bodies (and the reverse) is also canon.

But yeeeeeahh Gene was kind of a creep. You can find stories about the casting couch he ran back on TOS, and even on TNG his initial notes on the Ferengi had quite a bit about their sexual appetites.

Personally, the book I'm waiting for is the second part due out in August that covers the TNG era and the reboot movies, mostly because I'd like to know both how much of a mess Voyager actually was and just what exactly killed that era. I mean, we have Berman wanting to do TNG forever, Paramount wanting the franchise to be a moneymaking juggernaut in the face of all evidence, and the CBS/Paramount split, but there's gotta be more than that, right?

Come to think of it, the CBS/Paramount split probably completely changed the nature of Trek. When everything was in one house, there was no problem, but now that all the film content rights lie with Paramount and all the TV rights are with CBS, it's probably no longer possible to tell stories in the TNG setting since you'd have to go to the lawyers everytime you wanted to show an Excelsior-class ship or something. I'd be willing to bet JJTrek and Bryan Fuller's new series exist so that both Paramount and CBS can produce new Trek content without having to talk to one another ever again. Which, I suppose, means that the TNG era of Trek wasn't another chapter in the story, but a self-contained little episode that has now ended. Speaking as someone who grew up on that era...it's a goddamn shame.
permalink
at 20:17 on 03-07-2016, Arthur B
I understand Kirk/Spock was basically the first really popular slash pairing too.
permalink
at 19:09 on 03-07-2016, Sunnyskywalker
Changing topics, that oral history of Star Trek book looks like it covers some interesting might-have-beens. Toshiro Mifune as Spock's Klingon nemesis could have been amazing.

Spock being treated by a parapsychologist for pon farr-induced insanity, though? With all the sex they couldn't put on TV? That lends further support to the theory that TOS was, like, 50% PG-rated porn.

Seriously. Consider:

--Mate or die? CANON
--Alien queen wants to keep captain for reproductive and recreational purposes? CANON
--Military espionage forces Spock to hold hands really intensely with a sexy Romulan who slips into something more comfortable? CANON
--Icy planet with a sexy blonde who invites Spock to share her cozy bearskin bed? CANON
--Underground city of women that kidnaps men for reproduction? CANON
--Plant that suggestively blasts you in the face with pollen and leads Spock at least to declare love and then cut to a scene where he's changed clothes? CANON
--Leading men stripped to the waist and whipped by Space Nazis? CANON
--Space mail order brides for lonely space miners? CANON
--Love potions? CANON if you count the Animated Series

...and probably a lot more I'm forgetting. How many fanfic porn tropes are Gene Roddenberry's fault?
permalink
at 00:05 on 03-07-2016, Sunnyskywalker
Did anyone else here read the anthology Long Hidden : Speculative Fiction from the Margins of History? Lots of really great stories from both new authors and established greats like Tananarive Due. Plus one of my favorite zombie story quotes ever, from a story about the aftermath of a failed 1514 Hungarian peasant revolt:

"He told his tormentors, with us there to witness, that each rebellion they crushed would rise again, and again, until the nobles were driven from the land. At the time it seemed a far-fetched thing to say. We would do right by him, even if we ate them one by one."

The publisher is running a Kickstarter for a sequel anthology, Hidden Youth. I figure most of you won't be distracted this weekend by my people's annual explosives-filled celebration of the 1776 Amerexit, so do check it out if you're so inclined!
permalink
at 10:51 on 01-07-2016, James D
Fair enough! I'd certainly be interested in reading your thoughts at greater length. John Brunner seems to be mostly forgotten by the mainstream these days, only getting a few references here and there (in Shadowrun: Dragonfall for example there's a group called Die Shockwellen Reiter).
permalink
at 08:28 on 01-07-2016, Adrienne
James D: I wasn't communicating clearly, i think. My position is that there's PLENTY of both action and "whoa awesome" moments in the book; they're just things that the book shows you on its own terms. (Or in your case apparently didn't, which makes me sad! But i know that no book is for everyone.)
There's a couple books i need to read before i try to write a review of Shockwave Rider, but once I am moved I plan to do that, and then write the thing and hope Ferretbrain will publish it. :D
permalink
at 08:23 on 01-07-2016, Adrienne
Cheriola, Robinson L : Thanks for the congrats! I certainly never expected, at my age, to find someone i was interested in marrying, much less someone who was interested in marrying ME!
permalink
at 04:08 on 01-07-2016, Melanie
the idea that a large majority of Tories would vote for Brexit but that Leave would nevertheless lose the referendum, thus providing Boris with compelling evidence of his sway over the party faithful while avoiding having to deal with the repercussions of leaving the EU (which he rather transparently doesn't really want to do).


Imagine that. It's been sounding like that was the reasoning at least some Leave voters, too, who are now surprised/upset that they won. That they wanted to threaten it without having to actually follow through. Or they thought they could be "strategic" with their voting and just make Stay win by a smaller margin--like, they simultaneously figured 1)that they could manipulate the overall results to make their little point, and 2)that their vote wouldn't really matter or have consequences. It's like the opposite of groupthink, except not in a good way.

Which I guess goes to show that you probably can't eliminate strategic voting purely with the right voting system.
permalink
at 22:26 on 30-06-2016, Cheriola
I just saw that Fox (UK) is going to air "The Book of Negroes" mini-series under the less historically-based title "Someone Knows My Name", starting July the 17th. I watched that last year and highly recommend it. It's kind of like "Schindler's List" but with revolution-era African Americans fleeing to Canada, as the British have to give up control of New York to the likes of Washington and Jefferson (both big-time slave-owners, remember). Apparently the original novel is based on a true story - there really was a document called the "Book of Negroes" listing a few thousand ex-slaves who were evacuated by the British in return for loyalty during the war.

I'd be interested to read what the problem with Tamora Pierce is, too, aside from maybe a writing style not designed with adult readers in mind. I've never read anything by her, as far as I can remember, but I think someone recently recommended her to me when I went on a rant about the way even supposedly feminist female fantasy authors always fail to have their young, usually not pregnant, heroines deal with menstruation; or only ever mentioning it at all if it's necessary for some contrived plot point, like vampire/werewolf attraction or far-too-early-to-be-realistic-in-a-premodern-society menarche triggering a child bride plot. (This 'taboo' is observed even in novels that do mention other bodily functions a few times, or where the authors have no problem describing characters throwing up after drinking too much, for example. Which gives the very unhealthy impression that the normal function of the cis-female body is so dirty and shameful that girls shouldn't even think about it, never mind commiserate with others about the unpleasantness that rules a quarter of their life. And that, really, what the authors are saying is: "No, of course cis-gendered girls can't really go on adventures. That would be far too difficult and messy to even contemplate, especially under pre-industrial circumstances. Yes, even with magic - no need to give even a perfunctory explanation about a magical contraception artifact or hormone-suppressing herbal tisanes or whatever. Instead, lets just pretend girls are all just cis boys with tennis balls down their shirt. I don't care if you can't relate to that.")


And congratulations on your new tax status, Adrienne. ;P
permalink
at 21:21 on 30-06-2016, Bill
The swift, efficient treachery practiced in the Tory party greatly contrasts with the ongoing bumbling of Parliamentary Labour's attempts to dispose of Jeremy Corbyn.
permalink
at 20:12 on 30-06-2016, Arthur B
Given that his wife talks to him like he's a nervous child needing encouragement, I think he's more like Jim Hacker.
permalink
at 18:30 on 30-06-2016, Craverguy
According to Johnson's people, Michael Gove edited and approved Boris's column about how Britain is and always will be a part of Europe, persuaded Boris not to cut any endorsement-for-Cabinet-spot deals with Tory MPs, offered Foreign Secretary to George Osborne behind Boris's back and leaked it to the press, and announced his campaign for the leadership without informing Boris ahead of time.

Considering that he used to be Chief Whip, I now suspect that Michael Gove is, in fact, Francis Urquhart.
permalink
at 17:33 on 30-06-2016, Arthur B
(I should clarify that I meant the Rik Mayall sitcom with Alan B'Stard, not the news magazine of the same name.)
permalink